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Another ride with John today. 23.8 miles total, approx 800' total ascent. Rode from my place to meet John at GatewayTC, then drove out to Lewis & Clark State Park. Rode from L&C up CG scenic hwy to Springdale- all uphill but not a terribly steep grade. Good shoulder from L&C most of the way into Springdale (the section on the scenic highway), minimal shoulder on the rest of the route. Out Hurlburt rd to Gordon Creek Rd- again, mostly uphill, but not terribly steep to this point. Then down Gordon Creek Rd to the eastern portion of Oxbow park. This was a descent of about 400' in just over a mile. Had lunch at Oxbow, then had to go back up 400' in about a mile... John's legs gave out about 1/4 of the way up the hill. Walked my bike up the hill then rode back down to L&C to get John's van and pick him up. When John suggested the route, I figured he was familiar with the roads and felt he was in good enough shape to do the ride. I'm in better shape than he is, so I assumed that if he could do it, I'd have no problem. John used the time waiting or me to come back to flag all the routes in his bike guide that were indicated as flat or moderately hilly. We'll try one of those next time. Maybe Sauvie's Island which is pretty much flat.